Monday, November 19, 2012

Debate: Should A Leader Lose Their Job Over An Ethics Violation?

Should Retired General Petraeus Lose his job as CIA Director over infidelity?

Read the CNN Article and Prepare a Class Debate on the Questions: Should an Organizational Leader Lose their Job Over An Ethics Violation?  Use former CIA Director David Petreaus as the example for the Debate.

1. Pick Two Teams (1/2 male & 1/2 female). One Team that Agrees with Firing A Leader for infidelity and One Team that Disagrees with firing someone for Infidelity. Each Team will have three debaters with speaking roles to present your three main ideas for agreement or disagreement in the debate. Pick one person in the group to sign onto the blog to provide your talking points.

2. Draft Your Debate Talking Points and be ready to provide a copy. Submit those debate talking points as comments in this blog.

3. The Debate will occur on Wednesday during our shortened day.


  1. In class for vocabulary review, we discussed the following words:

    ETHICS: moral (sense of right & wrong) principles that govern a person or a groups behavior.

    CHARACTER: representation of a person (who they are)

    FIDELITY: a strict observance of one's promises, duties, or loyalties.

    We discussed ethics in relationships (casual, engagement, marriage). We discussed ethics in different groups (military, religion, medical, etc.) as far as organizational standards. We discussed the CIA Director Petraeus affair.

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  3. Period 1: Team Leon, Krough, Bullock, Bolivar.
    1. Personal life should not affect your professional life
    2. Many other great leader have has affaris as well yet they were not prosaquited.
    3. Only capable leader to direct the CIA.
    4. The social world believes it was right beacause hes human and he has needs, he wife also is every old looking.

    1. Teacher Comments: Solid Effort on the Debate this Wednesday and your ability to post your rough talking points on Tuesday as required. The Class Leader was impressed with your efforts on Tuesday. Your debate team was prepared and performed well. I would give your team a group score of A- for the effort.
      Critique: Make sure you don't READ your debate talking points, don't assume we know what you are talking about, articulate (names, etc.). Review your debate talking points and rehearse them in front of a mirror for improved performance.

  4. 2 reasons why 4 star general patreous shouldn't lose his job because 1 Bill Clinton was the president of United States and didn't get impeached for having an affair, 2 social life shouldn't be mixed with professional life. - pro keeps his job period 4

    1. TEACHER COMMENTS: Your talking points were solid but they needed to be more developed. After your debate "sound-bytes" you didn't have much else to add...? While this was a hasty debate, your talking points needed to be more developed and rehearsed, which would have improved your teams performance.

      CRITIQUE: Your assessment concept of keeping personal and professional lives separate when assessing organizational leaders loses credibility in some professions. A doctor swears an oath precluding him or her from having a personal relationship with a patient. Code of conduct or ethics for teachers, military members, and law enforcement highlight the importance of maintaining high personal and professional standards as they are role models and have certain authority that requires integrity, judgement, and proper behavior at all times.

  5. Period 4
    4 Reasons:
    1- He is a role model.
    2- He violated a rule that he swore to not break.
    3- People under him get in trouble for what he did, he should as well since he's above them.
    4- He represents the entire military of the United States, when he messes up,people think that our military is just like him.

    1. TEACHER COMMENTS: Your talking points were solid but they needed to be more developed. Your talking points were more developed than the opposing debate team. Your victory would have been more pronounced if you had rehearsed them, which would have improved your team's performance.

      CRITIQUES: The more senior in rank or position of authority you have the higher the standards of conduct / behavior and performance are for you. Every leader is a human being and capable of making bad decisions, ethical violations, and improper behavior. Every Leader has someone or some organization designated to supervise and monitor their job performance and conduct. Supervisors need to have compassion and empathy for those who make mistakes,but they must be held accountable. If Leaders are allowed to remain in positions of authority when they violate the letter and the spirit of the laws, rules, and regulations that they swore allegiance to, it will have a cancerous effect on the organization. The principle of integrity is more important than any one person, so it must be protected. A quality individual can recover from a personal mistake, but it is a long process.

  6. Period 6:
    Members: Gomez, Ramos, Leone, Lenard, Cardenas

    1. Social lives should not affect his profession life if it does not effect the people he is in charge of.

    2. Other people in the military have also had relationships and affairs in the military and didn't get as punished.

    3. He has worked hard for his country to get to where he was.

  7. Period 2 :
    1. honesty ( lied to Congress)
    2. Loyalty ( to the CIA and his wife)
    3. Self Discipline ( something you have to have in order to function in your professional and personal life.)

    1. TEACHING COMMENTS: Your talking points were solid, they needed to be developed more and rehearsed. One of the debate teammates "read" his talking points vice being comfortable enough to merely talk about them. When he spoke extemporaneously he actually did a better job articulating his perspective.

      CRITIQUE: Your talking points were all integrity based and speak to personal accountability which was effective. The special trust and confidence placed in a four star general and /or Director of the CIA deserve adherence to the goals and principles of personal and professional reliability.

  8. period 7 Huerta,ceja,labaze,rodriguez, armas, fequiere
    4 reasons are:
    1. your personal life shouldnt affect your professional life
    2. Its not going to make him a worse employee
    3.other people have made the same mistakes but they didnt have their jobs taken away.
    4.his personal life should be private.

  9. Period 7
    Team: Walsh, Singh, Folston, Cruz, Mclean, Rainone
    Reasons he should be fired
    -Role model.
    -CIA operatives cannot have affairs so he should be held to the same standard.
    -Military should have tought him morals and that it was wrong to have an affair.